"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.”
Another great piece Gawain. One of the things I increasingly value about your writing is that you challenge my own instincts rather than merely confirming them.
I suspect we come at some of these questions from different starting points. Unlike you, I am not instinctively opposed to Digital ID cards. In fact, I broadly support them. In a modern state, I think governments have both a right and a responsibility to know who is in the country legally, who is entitled to work, and who is accessing public services. Properly implemented, Digital ID could help tackle illegal immigration, fraud and exploitation while also making public administration more efficient.
However - and this is where I think we may have a lot of common ground - I am deeply uneasy when the state begins to move away from the principle that people are innocent until proven guilty.
A state can be strong without becoming arbitrary. It can enforce borders and uphold law and order while still preserving due process, trial by jury and evidential standards. Once we start restricting people not for what they have done, but for what authorities believe they may do, or, God forbid, what they think, we step onto dangerous ground very quickly.
So while I part company with you on the principle of Digital ID itself, I think his broader warning, that powers introduced for good reasons do not always remain confined to those reasons. deserves serious thought.
Thanks again for a really thought provoking piece Gawain.
Excellent, though chilling article. I worry these serious issues are not fully understood by MPs and we are gradually being pinned down by this authoritarian government. I am definitely interested in your new society.
"since the Stuart kings." A bit hard on Jamie VI & I but fair comment on the rest. It's striking (is it not?) that the Stuart queens - Mary and Anne - seemed to be made of better stuff.
A very good article and the time is right for a Liburne Society. If this situation isn't resolved soon it will be time for the pikes and muskets to come out of retirement.
Any government that lays it hand on me to govern me is a usurper and a tyrant and I declare them my enemy.
The renewed interest in defending and restoring ancient liberties in Britain is truly encouraging. This could be a unifying force for individual liberty, which simultaneously helps to connect individuals with their past traditions.
As you mentioned the Stuart Kings, I cannot resist a quote from the debates concerning freedom of speech in the parliament of 1621:
“There is nothing so dear to the subject as liberty, no liberty so good as that in parliament, none in parliament greater than the freedom of speech” - Sir Henry Poole, 12 February 1621
I'm appalled by the plan to remove the right to trial by jury from defendants in certain cases. Having served on a jury (as forewoman in a manslaughter trial), I know that there will undoubtedly be wrongful convictions without the additional scrutiny of a jury - particularly as some judges have demonstrated that they are not politically neutral.
I like the sound of the proposed Lilburne Society, and will follow with interest.
Absolutely superb as ever.If my rudimentary history serves me right I recall John Lilburne was a leveller.Either way this has been going on for a long time .Margaret Thatcher brought in the Public order Act ,which effectively Criminalises anything one says(I was tried twice last year under this.I have a new one at Bath Magistrates court on the 30th September this year).
One of my trials had been going on so long I had the right to go to Bristol Crown court .I have always exercised this right to trial by jury when possible.Bless HH Judge Picton who more or less dismissed it (all just words as usual)without the need to hold the trial.It was fascinating to watch.As mine was an either way offence under The current proposals I couldn't have done this.
As Gawain states the right to trial by jury is an ancient one,this will now be destroyed.I am not being anti Semitic in stating that this is being brought about Leveson,Starmer ,Hermer and Sackman,all Jews .Sackman ironically the courts minister is the MP for Golders Green,in a recent interview she mentioned British traditions.One of which is trial by Jury I'd say.Her husband is a judge who makes many pro immigrant judgements.An old family friend of mine 'Boss 'Lilford of Rhodesia had a mantra "Where the Jews lead the blacks follow",their agent in this is the negro Lammy.Even in the Kaiser's Germany, Jews were not allowed to practice the law,we now see why.
Very best wishes for your new venture Gawain and I shall register ,given that I've always believed in freedom.I've known too many great men who've fought for it ,not to .A truly inspiring article.
(The antipathy of Avon and Somerset police towards me ,stems from when many years ago they illegally raided my house(For which they had to pay me a lot of money)and seized a family heirloom ,a signed photo of an International Statesman.Subsequently returned.My mother sued stating it might have faded but lost the case,a gentleman of the Hebrew faith represented A &S police ,it was a joy to watch him squirm every time the statesman's name was mentioned.I have all the papers ,the search instigated by an Inspector Cohen on fabricated evidence.)
Just about the scariest essay I’ve read, ever. Shout it loud and good luck.
To answer your question, I'm with you.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.”
― C.S. Lewis, God in the Dock: Essays on Theology
Another great piece Gawain. One of the things I increasingly value about your writing is that you challenge my own instincts rather than merely confirming them.
I suspect we come at some of these questions from different starting points. Unlike you, I am not instinctively opposed to Digital ID cards. In fact, I broadly support them. In a modern state, I think governments have both a right and a responsibility to know who is in the country legally, who is entitled to work, and who is accessing public services. Properly implemented, Digital ID could help tackle illegal immigration, fraud and exploitation while also making public administration more efficient.
However - and this is where I think we may have a lot of common ground - I am deeply uneasy when the state begins to move away from the principle that people are innocent until proven guilty.
A state can be strong without becoming arbitrary. It can enforce borders and uphold law and order while still preserving due process, trial by jury and evidential standards. Once we start restricting people not for what they have done, but for what authorities believe they may do, or, God forbid, what they think, we step onto dangerous ground very quickly.
So while I part company with you on the principle of Digital ID itself, I think his broader warning, that powers introduced for good reasons do not always remain confined to those reasons. deserves serious thought.
Thanks again for a really thought provoking piece Gawain.
This is scary. I will register my interest.
Please do
Excellent, though chilling article. I worry these serious issues are not fully understood by MPs and we are gradually being pinned down by this authoritarian government. I am definitely interested in your new society.
Drop
Me a line
"since the Stuart kings." A bit hard on Jamie VI & I but fair comment on the rest. It's striking (is it not?) that the Stuart queens - Mary and Anne - seemed to be made of better stuff.
You make on interesting point, though I’m with Sellars and Yeatman, Wrong but Wromantic.
A very good article and the time is right for a Liburne Society. If this situation isn't resolved soon it will be time for the pikes and muskets to come out of retirement.
Any government that lays it hand on me to govern me is a usurper and a tyrant and I declare them my enemy.
The renewed interest in defending and restoring ancient liberties in Britain is truly encouraging. This could be a unifying force for individual liberty, which simultaneously helps to connect individuals with their past traditions.
As you mentioned the Stuart Kings, I cannot resist a quote from the debates concerning freedom of speech in the parliament of 1621:
“There is nothing so dear to the subject as liberty, no liberty so good as that in parliament, none in parliament greater than the freedom of speech” - Sir Henry Poole, 12 February 1621
Grim reading but manifestly correct
I'm appalled by the plan to remove the right to trial by jury from defendants in certain cases. Having served on a jury (as forewoman in a manslaughter trial), I know that there will undoubtedly be wrongful convictions without the additional scrutiny of a jury - particularly as some judges have demonstrated that they are not politically neutral.
I like the sound of the proposed Lilburne Society, and will follow with interest.
Where do I sign up?
Drop me a line
Absolutely superb as ever.If my rudimentary history serves me right I recall John Lilburne was a leveller.Either way this has been going on for a long time .Margaret Thatcher brought in the Public order Act ,which effectively Criminalises anything one says(I was tried twice last year under this.I have a new one at Bath Magistrates court on the 30th September this year).
One of my trials had been going on so long I had the right to go to Bristol Crown court .I have always exercised this right to trial by jury when possible.Bless HH Judge Picton who more or less dismissed it (all just words as usual)without the need to hold the trial.It was fascinating to watch.As mine was an either way offence under The current proposals I couldn't have done this.
As Gawain states the right to trial by jury is an ancient one,this will now be destroyed.I am not being anti Semitic in stating that this is being brought about Leveson,Starmer ,Hermer and Sackman,all Jews .Sackman ironically the courts minister is the MP for Golders Green,in a recent interview she mentioned British traditions.One of which is trial by Jury I'd say.Her husband is a judge who makes many pro immigrant judgements.An old family friend of mine 'Boss 'Lilford of Rhodesia had a mantra "Where the Jews lead the blacks follow",their agent in this is the negro Lammy.Even in the Kaiser's Germany, Jews were not allowed to practice the law,we now see why.
Very best wishes for your new venture Gawain and I shall register ,given that I've always believed in freedom.I've known too many great men who've fought for it ,not to .A truly inspiring article.
(The antipathy of Avon and Somerset police towards me ,stems from when many years ago they illegally raided my house(For which they had to pay me a lot of money)and seized a family heirloom ,a signed photo of an International Statesman.Subsequently returned.My mother sued stating it might have faded but lost the case,a gentleman of the Hebrew faith represented A &S police ,it was a joy to watch him squirm every time the statesman's name was mentioned.I have all the papers ,the search instigated by an Inspector Cohen on fabricated evidence.)